Unapologetically ADHD with Kristen Carder

Alright, listen up, folks! Today, I've got Kristen Carder, the badass ADHD expert and host of the "I Have ADHD" podcast, joining me for a real talk about adulting with ADHD. We're ripping off the mask of societal expectations and getting real about the struggles of those of us who've mastered the art of hiding our ADHD struggles behind a facade of so-called normalcy.

Kristen drops some truth bombs as we dive into the paradox of sharp minds shackled by inconsistent performance. She shares her journey from banging her head against the wall in frustration to becoming a fierce advocate, fighting for understanding and support for those walking the winding path of ADHD.

We're breaking free from the chains of  normativity  and digging deep into the liberation that comes from reconnecting with our 'why.' We're not sugar-coating it either – what seems like a walk in the park for some can feel like climbing Mount Everest for us ADHD warriors. We're preaching the gospel of self-compassion as we navigate the mental minefield of daily routines and stressing the importance of choosing paths that light a fire in our souls.

In this raw, heart-to-heart exchange, we're shouting from the rooftops about the necessity of prioritizing self-care and forging meaningful connections. And let's not forget, we're celebrating the full spectrum of our neurodivergent experiences – the highs, the lows, and everything in between. So buckle up, because this conversation is about to take you on a ride you won't soon forget!

More about  Kristen:
Kristen Carder is an ADHD expert, a top podcast host, and an internationally-recognized life coach for adults with ADHD.

Kristen’s extensive experience supporting people with ADHD began in 2012, and for the last four years she has provided coaching and consulting to thousands of ADHD adults.

ADHD is not a buzz word to Kristen Carder, it's her life's work. She started studying ADHD and its effect on adults long before it was trending on TikTok, and has had the privilege of learning directly from the leading psychiatrists and psychologists in the ADHD industry.

Kristen’s life’s purpose is to help adults with ADHD accept themselves and move from Point A to Point B. She does this through the I Have ADHD Podcast and her group coaching program, FOCUSED.

Where to find Kristen:
Website
Podcast
Instagram

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Transcript

Chris : 0:32

Hey Besties, how are you doing? Welcome back to the pod. I'm super excited for today's episode because we have a special guest, Kristen Carter. Say hi, Kristen.

Kristen: 0:42

Hello, thanks for having me, kristen.

Chris : 0:44

Oh my God, thank you so much for coming. So Kristen is like an ADHD expert and the host of the I have ADHD podcast, which is like such a perfect title. It's just like this is what it is, and I'm excited to have you on today just to kind of talk through some things that are coming up for me post my diagnosis. So everyone on the pod, if you've been listening, then you know that I got a diagnosis for ADHD back in July and it was like so obvious and I don't know how we missed it, but I know how we missed it, and so I wanted to have Kristen on to talk a little bit about that, about atypical presentations, what it's like as an adult to have ADHD, like what that looks like, especially for high masking people who didn't know we had ADHD. So we've been doing all the things, feeling like shit and not understanding why. So maybe you can tell us first, though, like before we get into all of it, just like a little bit about you and your background.

Kristen: 1:52

Oh, I'd love to. Yeah, thanks for asking. I've been in the ADHD space for about a decade, so I started when I was I owned a tutoring center and, lo and behold, I kept attracting families whose children had ADHD. And there's just such an interesting dynamic when somebody who's really smart has ADHD. Right, because ADHD does not affect your intelligence, but what it does affect is your ability to perform. And so we get all of these. We're getting all of these students who were high intelligence but struggling with performance. And for anyone listening, that's like a hallmark trait of ADHD is when your performance doesn't match your potential and when there's just like that big gap there and you're like I know I'm smart, I know I can do this. Like what is stopping me? Why can't I just do it Like? An ADHD diagnosis answers a lot of those questions of why can't I just, why can't I just follow through? Why can't I just get organized? Why can't I just do it like my colleagues do it Like why can't I just like? Adhd is a really great answer to those. So I had so much empathy for these students and so I started researching ADHD.

Kristen: 3:11

Now I was diagnosed at the time, but I didn't know anything about it Because when you get diagnosed, they're just like you struggle to focus, you have ADHD. Here's the medication and, by the way, the medication really helped me, so I was so grateful for that, yeah, but I didn't know anything about it and as I was researching, I was getting so angry. I can't believe I didn't know that time management was an ADHD thing. Can't believe I was infuriated. I can't believe I didn't know that struggling to organize was an ADHD thing. I couldn't believe that I didn't know that, like emotional dysregulation and my explosive emotions that caused a lot of issues and relationships, was a symptom of ADHD. And so here, this thing that I thought was just like, oh, you struggle to focus is so much more than that. It's so much more. And everything I hated about myself fit mostly, mostly everything I hated about myself fit into this category of symptoms of ADHD.

Kristen: 4:14

And so when I really began to uncover that, I was like people need to know, like nobody's talking about this, what in the world? And so I started a podcast. I've loved doing that. I did not start thinking that I would become a coach, which is adorable, and I just started it because I was like people need to know and like I'm angry about this. We need to talk about it. It was like a cathartic experience for me to just talk about it. I started at the end of like 2018. And what's so? Just beautiful how the world works. I've always been a coach and never self identified, and have been coaching people against their will since I was like a toddler. And so, yes, absolutely same.

Kristen: 5:02

Totally like so much coaching without consent throughout my life, because I just didn't realize that that was my calling and so eventually landed there. And, yeah, I've been coaching adults with ADHD since 2019 and feel like it is. It's been a coming home experience for me, which has just been so beautiful.

Chris : 5:26

Oh my God, I love that so much.

Chris : 5:28

I love that it was your anger, that? No, because you know, I think we talk so much as coaches about like useful emotions, right, and like what's going to create action, and we don't often coach people with like to move to act from anger, right, like that's not for sure, that's not the way that we've really been taught to think about it. But let's be honest, like I think anger is very catalyzing, like it is, it's energy and for me specifically, I know, like with someone who has low energy, naturally I will take whatever energy my body is willing to give me and as long as I can look at that and be like, okay, I'm riled, how can I channel it right? Versus like just letting myself, like you know, have a meltdown or like throw a tantrum or something you know For sure.

Kristen: 6:27

I think it's a great fuel source it can be, and think of all of the change that's been made in the world because of anger, because of our sense of justice, right and so and that's what it was. For me, it was like this sense of injustice that I was feeling. That was like you know, we don't talk about this and I have walked around in the world since I was 21, thinking that I was a bad person, and it turns out that I'm. Well, I might like be a bad person for other reasons, but I'm not a bad person because of these.

Kristen: 6:57

Things like these fit into the category of symptoms of ADHD. And it was so releasing for me, it was so freeing and I was like on a mission then my therapist calls it freedom fighting. Like I was just on a mission, like I was just on a mission to like fight for other adults. Freedom in this area as well, where it's just like you do not need to feel shame about this, you do not need to feel self judgment and, yeah, I think anger as a fuel source can be really useful.

Chris : 7:28

I love that you're saying that and I I love the idea of freeing people and it's so interesting because I do feel like, you know, there's so much more awareness now, there's so much more talk going on, but it is wild to you, like I always say to my audience, like stay out of the comments, because I can't help it. So you go into the comments and you're, you know, not even my own stuff, like other people's stuff, I'm just like what's, what are people saying in the comments? I'm like, chris, you know, don't do it, don't do it. And there are still people who are like that's not real, oh yeah, and I'm like, and it's so, it's so incensing because I'm, you know, I'm very new in this journey for myself and similarly, like as a coach, I noticed that I was really attracting a lot of neurodivergent clients. Totally. I wonder why.

Kristen: 8:20

What's going on, yeah?

Chris : 8:22

And so, um, and I, you know, I think like the like attracts like, and I also think you know the way I was coaching and talking about things was so, I guess, like, what's the word? Accepting and accommodating? And like there was so much grace and peace around like scheduling for instance, like you know how we need to think about scheduling our lives, and as a creative which I think so many creatives are just undiagnosed with ADHD, I think actually.

Chris : 8:55

I think a lot of things contributed to me not being diagnosed, like being being in the arts, being creative, being a dancer. I learned how to control my body. I learned how to control so much of myself.

Chris : 9:09

You know, like being born male, like a sign male, at birth and but being queer and like all of my friends were girls and being socialized around girls and being nice and polite and quiet, and like the fact that I have an older brother who was like not diagnosed but he clearly has it like younger sister, clearly like she is diagnosed. We both got diagnosed around the same time it was so.

Chris : 9:35

Yeah, so we are like in it together. It's really fun to have someone. She's also 12 years younger than me, but I know a big difference. But yeah, like I, you know, my brother was like bouncing off the walls and I was sitting alone in my room with my dolls, like playing with them and lining them up like hello hyper focus, hello special interest. You know what I mean. But like no one's, no one's mad if their son is sitting in the room. I mean once they get quietly once that.

Chris : 10:08

Once we're past that like if you're sitting quietly in your room playing with dolls like no one's. You're not disrupting anybody, and that's what's so hard, I think, about being someone who was diagnosed late. It just means you were never a problem for anybody, but you everything was a problem for you.

Kristen: 10:27

Yeah, internally.

Chris : 10:29

Yeah, so much turmoil, yeah, so much turmoil.

Kristen: 10:32

Yeah, I think that you named it so beautifully that you weren't a problem for anybody else, but everything was just a like internal problem and the weight that that brings for a human is too much to bear. And that's when you know at that breaking point is likely, when you go for that diagnosis, when you're just like I cannot handle this any, I cannot bear this weight any longer. Do you feel like that was the experience for you?

Chris : 11:08

Yeah, because I've been, you know, probably. So when did I go and start my own business? It was like end of 2022. And things were kind of going along nicely. I had just stopped working for the Life Coach School like coaching full time, and so I just kind of filled my calendar like I would have if I was still coaching all day, every day, and but like I was responsible for it all and I was making all the decisions and I had to, like you know, really make my own calendar and decide what order things went in and how I allocated my time and all of these things. And it just progressively got harder and harder and harder and I had already been kind of thinking it's funny. I was like five years ago when I first started hearing a lot about ADHD and I said to my husband like I think you have ADHD.

Kristen: 12:02

And I know Projection it's amazing Such a projection.

Chris : 12:08

I mean, we still think he has it, even though when he got tested they were like I don't think so and I'm like I don't know about that.

Kristen: 12:15

Yeah, I.

Chris : 12:18

Yeah. But so I then was like reading about it, I was like yeah you know, I think maybe you have ADHD.

Chris : 12:23

And I started reading about it. I was like wait, I have ADHD, yeah. And then I didn't really do anything about it for like five years. And then when my younger sister decided like she was going to get evaluated and she kind of paved the way for me, I was like, ok, you did it, I can do it. And but yeah, I really was at that breaking point. I really and I honestly I I haven't recovered, to be honest, like it's only been since July. I went on Stratara to start and then that wasn't really working for me, so then I went on stimulants and that's working great and yay, and I've also like adjusted my other meds, like my antidepressants and other things.

Chris : 13:11

So I feel like, finally, like I'm starting to feel like a human being that can tackle all of the things, but I kind of feel like I've just been flailing.

Kristen: 13:23

Yeah.

Chris : 13:24

Or like the last like almost year, because there was a lot of grieving. Yeah, there was a lot of like, just you know, and I did all this work in therapy, but but it's I'm still doing it like the internalized ableism and the grieving, like I'm smart and I didn't know I was smart, like and and again, like my older brother was like I'm pretty sure he's also gifted, like he was like.

Chris : 13:54

so off the charts smart. So like I and I struggled in school and so I wasn't the smart one, I was like the talented one, like I danced, and I was given a lot of praise for that my parents were super supportive of that, but there was never kind of like well, why are you struggling so much, you know, and that hurts it hurts, so bad.

Chris : 14:23

That hurts. To think like that it could have been different is really like I hate going there. But you know, I didn't realize until much later on that like I'm actually a very intelligent person. I excel at everything that I do, but I have to be very interested in it. So we can talk a little bit about that, for sure, because we were talking before we started rolling today people about like dopamine and that whole jam. So we can talk a little bit about like what even is going on with us and dopamine.

Kristen: 14:59

Yeah, I. This is a really important aspect of understanding the diagnosis Is that you 100% have an interest based brain and I would even go so far to say an interest based nervous system. Like it needs to be a full body. Yes, if that makes sense to total sense, yeah, it's got to be a full body. Yes, I like to say, like those of us with ADHD are like allergic to being out of alignment.

Chris : 15:31

Ooh, wait, I need to like I need to like metabolize that allergic to being out of alignment. Yes, 100%, because there are just times when I'm trying to do something and I know I cannot do it until everything drops into place and I don't know what everything is. Yeah, I don't know what the everything is, I just know once it does like there's not going to be any resistance, exactly. Not frustrating because you don't know when it's coming, and like learning how to trust that it is coming is very hard. That's exactly it.

Kristen: 16:08

And I would add to that if something feels out of alignment that you are required to do, let's say you're in a job and you have to do expense reports monthly and you know these expense reports are total BS, like they don't matter, nobody really cares, it's just jumping through corporate hoops getting yourself to do those gosh dang expense reports. Totally swear here. Okay.

Kristen: 16:35

It's like it is a full body resistance, even though in your brain you're just like this is the easiest part of my job. Just do the effing I do, I do. Well, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do. What do you call it?

Chris : 16:54

I censor all of my swears.

Kristen: 16:58

All of the effing blah blah. Every listening is like could you just act like the 42 year old that you are and maybe say I'm like no, I'm going to say gosh, dang and effing Okay.

Chris : 17:07

I love it. I'm here for it.

Kristen: 17:09

Okay. So even though it's the easiest part of the job quote unquote, easiest part of the job I can't get myself to do it because I know it's stupid, because I know it's just like this doesn't matter, right. And so being in alignment with the full body, yes, of like this matters. This is important to me, I want to do this, I'm willing to do it, and so when we have that resistance, a neurotypical person looks at that stupid assignment and says it's dumb. But whatever, I'll just do it. Whatever, they don't have the full body resistance that we do. Part of that is their domain levels are stable and their reward system is intact.

Kristen: 17:48

So, unfortunately, with an ADHD brain, our reward system is broken, meaning, when a task comes, we are supposed to be able to foresee the dopamine that will be coming eventually. So, like, let's just take laundry, a neurotypical brain is going to look at the task of laundry, and of course, nobody wants to do laundry. And so a neurotypical and you might hear this from people like yeah, I don't want to do laundry either. I don't know what the big deal is. Why can't you just do it right or insert whatever it might be? I don't want to be, I don't want to do the dishes either. I don't want to do the expense report either. I don't know why it's so hard for you. Okay, but what a neurotypical brain can do is foresee that the dopamine is on its way, and so I will do that task, knowing that I'm going to get a reward at the end An ADHD brain.

Kristen: 18:40

It's broken. We don't have that. We're not going. First of all, we're not going to get a dopamine hit, most likely, and we don't foresee it coming, so it feels insurmountable. So our brain is not wired for these mundane, stupid, annoying, unaligned tasks. We just it's a no, it's a no.

Chris : 19:00

It's just a no.

Kristen: 19:01

It's just a no.

Chris : 19:04

Can I ask why are we not going to get the dopamine? Is it because we just have like a less, less to begin with, so it doesn't happen?

Kristen: 19:11

Okay, so technically speaking, it's we have fewer dopamine receptors. So the receptors like they're receivers, they're the, they're like they're out there and they're like you know, if the dopamine flows, I will receive it and send it to the right place. So we have fewer dopamine receptors, got it? I have not brushed up on like the technical science, but I do know that. Yeah, I mean, I think that's good enough right.

Chris : 19:43

Like, just to know that if we have fewer receptors then there's less of an ability for us to experience that hit Exactly and and it's not going to feel as rewarding because there there isn't as many receptors to like, like, give that pleasure and give the pleasure.

Kristen: 19:59

Yeah, exactly, that makes total sense. Yeah.

Chris : 20:01

Exactly.

Kristen: 20:03

And so what our brain and body is constantly doing is a cost benefit analysis of is the reward going to be great enough to expend the energy?

Chris : 20:13

Oh, my God, that hits so hard because I'm always like it just feels like it's going to be too much work. That's exactly it. Like that's just. My brain is always just like no, that doesn't feel like it's going to be worth it. Yeah, that's exactly it.

Kristen: 20:26

If your, if your dopamine system was intact, if, if everything was aligned and working the way that it quote unquote should, what you would be able to do is your brain would predict that the dopamine is on its way, and so you. The cost benefit analysis the benefit it's more likely that the benefit line would be heavier, yeah.

Chris : 20:54

And if we think about it too, like if that's all going on subconsciously but we kind of know that our subconscious is is running the show in the background before it's going to be conscious, then it it's almost like, right, If we think about our, when we talk about the future self, like we have to feel the feelings that we want to have in order to create the result that we want. It's like, subconsciously, that's what is going on. For, like a neurotypical person, they're, like they're, they're already starting to feel the reward just by thinking about the reward. Right, and that's what motivates them. If we look at that. That's what motivates them to then do the thing and then get the reward. So then it's like they get a double reward and we're like don't get that.

Kristen: 21:37

Yeah, it's totally unfair. It's totally unfair, and so the antidote to that is to first of all, drop everything that you don't care about. Truly Don't do it. Cross it off your list. You don't have to. You're grown up, you get to do whatever you want. You don't have to do anything that you don't want to do. Also, just cross it off your list.

Chris : 21:57

I say this all the time and then I don't do it because, like, there's so much programming, right, it's like I gotta clean the kitchen. It's like, no, you don't have to clean the kitchen and I love to clean. So eventually I'm going to clean the kitchen, right, but like you know what I didn't mean, but it's like it's that I have to do it in a particular time, Like all of that programming of like, if it's not done, you know, within 30 minutes after you finished dinner. Like you know what I like and like that's just like unconscious commitment, right, it like comes up so much.

Chris : 22:28

So I think that that is really hard for a lot of us to undo everything that we have been taught and everything that we've been taught that we like, like you said, quote unquote should be able to do based on neurotypical people.

Kristen: 22:43

Yeah, exactly, yeah, I think an ADHD diagnosis is a beautiful invitation to reevaluate your values, reevaluate what matters to you, reevaluate what feels most important and where you want to put your attention, knowing that it's a commodity, it's a limited commodity. So when you know, like my attention, my focus, my capacity, my energy limited commodity, it's like it is a. It's a renewable resource, but it takes quite a long time to renew, right, and so it's a beautiful invitation to reassess. And and back to the laundry example, I really have to get in touch with my why for laundry. So, like I don't care about laundry.

Kristen: 23:40

It's the most boring task and, truthfully, my husband does 90% of it. But every Sunday I think about my kids going to school on Monday and I think about the week coming up and I'm like I don't want to have to do. I don't even want to have to think about their laundry this week. I don't want them to be stressed about like I don't have any clothes to wear and I don't want to have to think about it. And so I'm going to do as many loads of laundry on Sunday as possible and that's my why and I'm committed to it and I don't care Like I yesterday I did three loads and there's one sitting in the dryer right now waiting to be folded. And I really hope my husband does it, because I don't want to do it. I don't want to do it.

Kristen: 24:20

Yeah, laundry is, laundry is hard, just an example where, like, a neurotypical person is just going to be like, yeah, nobody likes laundry, but, like for somebody with ADHD, we're just like, no, I will turn my underwear inside out and go that way or not even wear it, right.

Chris : 24:38

Like I'm not going to do it.

Kristen: 24:40

Yeah, we're just going to.

Chris : 24:41

Yeah, I just I'm so curious too about like the, the toll that it takes on us, right when we're trying to force ourselves to do things. That, I think, is is super important, because you know, we can talk a lot about like how amazing it is to like know ourselves and use that as an invitation, but I know that like to actually understand what the like, why it's such a problem, yeah, to try and force ourselves when we're not in alignment.

Kristen: 25:15

Yeah, I think that you know, just thinking about how much more work is it to do something when you're in full body resistance and I believe and I just talked about this recently on a podcast episode is just like this is what leads us to burnout. This is what leads us to canceling everything and go into the cave. That's what I call it. Go into the cave where it's just like everything's canceled. I'm just going to rot on my couch and stare at my phone and not text anyone, not do anything, like it is the the constant. And you know we we could go really deep into like we do this because it was first done to us.

Chris : 26:03

Sorry, everyone like that will be real fast.

Kristen: 26:07

I'll take a moment and give each other a hug. But like when we were struggling in school, it was like get with the program. We know you're smart. If you could just be consistent, if you could just follow through, if you could just do your homework, if you could just remember to turn it in, if you could just find that dang homework, like all of it, right. It's like it was first done to us, where it's like it doesn't matter how you feel, you just have to do it, which is really something that I try to get very far away from with myself and in parenting my kids now, like there are things that they need to do, but it does matter how they feel.

Kristen: 26:47

And I think that we were parented in a different way. Most people listening were probably parented in a different way, even by well-meaning parents, and so I think that we do it to ourselves. Now We've internalized those voices of parents and teachers. That's just like just get it done, it's not that hard. What's the big deal? Not realizing how we are ignoring ourselves. And so we detach from ourselves so often to try to get to amp up productivity. If I could just detach from myself, not be a person, not feel emotions, not really care about anything. Then I can be productive. And really the way to be productive is to have that full body.

Chris : 27:30

Yes, that just hits so hard. Oh you poor thing, oh my gosh. No, like, just, it's like you know, you know it, you talk about it, you talk about it clinically, you talk about it in therapy, but I like intellectualized so much. So I'm like, yeah, I know I'm dissociating, right, like I know, but like that's word, what does it even mean after a while? So to have it like explained that way, yeah, it just it, was it really viscerally like hit me that like oh, yeah, that's what I'm doing, or what I've learned to do and have done so much. Like I can be productive if I just abandon myself entirely.

Kristen: 28:18

I mean that just hurts my heart hearing it totally, and I think that that has been passed down from generation to generation to generation and most of us had well-meaning parents. But truly, I mean, if you think about, like our grandparents at war, in the depression, like of course it was a survival mechanism, of course, and even for us as kids it was adaptive. We had to, we had to take on that, you know, disconnect from self, to stay attached to caregivers, to stay attached to the community, to be able to be included. But now we're grown, y'all we are grown, and so now it's doing the work of connecting to ourselves, attaching to ourselves, making sure that we are really attuned to who we are, to what we need, to what we're feeling. It doesn't mean that you never do anything you don't want to do. It's just a matter of the cost-benefit analysis and really keeping your why in mind and making sure like some things like okay, confession, I hate podcasting.

Kristen: 29:30

I love this combo. Love it, love it. I hate having a podcast. Do you know that I have to send my editor an episode every single Thursday, 52 Thursdays a year? Yeah, the hell is up with that. I think that was a bad choice. Kristin Carter right, I love having a podcast. It's the best, it's the best. But actually podcasting, coming up with an idea, thinking it through, doing the research, recording a show it's too much. So every single week I am doing this cost-benefit analysis every single time, and there have been times when I've done it in resistance, but most of the time I can get connected to the why. I love talking to people, I love helping people, I love these topics, I love the cathartic experience of raging, I love it Right and so, but it is. It's not easy.

Chris : 30:23

Yeah, so could you talk a little bit about like maybe for yourself, or what you help people, or how you help people you know, with this like alignment piece and the finding there. Why? Because, like, we can get into alignment right, like in sometimes, right, but it's really got to be more about that. Why right and so like, how do you help people? First of all, know like what's like. You know what I mean, because we're so used to disconnecting.

Kristen: 30:58

So I know for myself.

Chris : 30:59

Sometimes I don't even really realize that I've left my body.

Kristen: 31:03

For sure.

Chris : 31:05

And I'm just doing things and so I'm not feeling the fact that I don't want to be doing what I'm doing. Just something feels off, but I'm not really sure what it is. And again, it can be for things that I theoretically like, right. I might not like all the pieces of it, like podcasting, or, you know, when it's time for a consult or whatever, and I'm like you don't have to be a stranger.

Kristen: 31:32

Yeah.

Chris : 31:34

Which like hard, oh, meeting is every time meeting is strangers so hard. But it's not that I don't like once I'm on that call and you know, so yeah, but I won't really notice that either until after the fact, when like there's a sense of relief, yes, and I'm like, oh, I guess I was stressed out about that.

Kristen: 31:59

It's such a complicated question to answer because it doesn't come in a tidy package. And what is hard about being a coach today, in 2024, is like everybody wants the five easy steps to blah, blah, blah and it's just like. This is not how that works at all, and so for some things there's going to be the five easy steps for, like, being values, aligned and knowing yourself and connecting. That doesn't come in a pretty package. I think you know, when somebody enters my program, it's more about triage, it's more about, like, plugging the holes and making sure that nobody's like bleeding out really is like where we're at, and so sometimes that's emotional regulation. The time it's emotional regulation, sometimes it's like a self-concept thing or self-trust, no-transcript. Little by little, we tend to chip away at like when somebody so you saw my look, which is why you giggled a couple of times and I loved it so much. But I like when clients say things like well, yeah, I can get myself aligned, that's when I give the look of like are we gaslighting ourselves into alignment, Right and so-.

Chris : 33:21

We are probably.

Kristen: 33:22

A lot of times I think we are. And then the question is, why and it's like to make other people happy, or because I feel like I should do it? And so, little by little, chipping away and dismantling the shoulds is really a huge part of the work. Like I should even, just like you said, like I should clean up the kitchen, it should be done about 30 minutes after I've eaten. Now, that's just an arbitrary rule that we have in our heads, right, and you can intellectualize that and talk it through and say like this is an arbitrary rule, who really cares? But what's so interesting is then, like two hours later, if the dishes aren't done, we have some sort of judgment of like oh, dishes aren't done Like what's wrong with me that I'm not doing my dishes, I'm a slob, I'm just lazy, right.

Kristen: 34:10

And so then the judgment comes in. So it's so much work of just like really not believing my clients when they pretend that they wanna do something.

Kristen: 34:22

Ooh, I love that so much it's so much that right when they're just like no, I really want to, and I'm like really, and this happens. It's a group program now, so it happens on a larger scale, but there's a lot of dismantling of like is it really true that that's what you want? Because when our actions don't align, don't line up with what we say, we want something's off. And it's a beautiful indicator. It's not. There should be no judgment. It just should be a beautiful indicator that like something's off here. So what's going on? And I think it's just a again, I'm gonna use the word invitation, an invitation to look at like am I struggling with my mental health, like depression, anxiety, that kind of a thing, or do I just like not really care about this? And I really want to care and I wish I cared, but I don't care, I do not care.

Chris : 35:17

I do not care. It's powerful to be able to like admit that right, and that's something that I talk to my clients about all the time of like you have to tell yourself the truth, like you don't have to tell anybody else the truth, but start with telling yourself the truth and I think that, right. It's all the moralizing everything, like this stuff isn't moral, it's not good, it's not bad, it's like we're not good or bad people and any of that. But, like you were saying before, like if we don't do the dishes, we start telling ourselves a story about who we are. And it's the same thing when we don't care about things that we think we should be caring about, caring about Like we think they should matter.

Chris : 36:00

And the truth is that, like, some days they do matter, some days, like, we do care about certain things and they're important, and other days we don't. And that doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with us, because we have different bandwidth on every day, and I think that that's one of the things that I've always known about myself. Like I used to say to my husband, like I can do one thing a day. Now it has been brought to my attention by my therapist that even when I was saying I was doing one thing a day, I was doing 700 things.

Kristen: 36:31

Uh-huh, love it. Good for your therapist for seeing the truth.

Chris : 36:36

I mean I can do one day. He's like you just told me like 10 things that you've done today. I'm like, yeah, but there are little things. And he's like there's no such thing as a little thing Because your brain is breaking every task up into every single thing and you have to remember the order and what is the order? And like did I do that already? I put deodorant on three times this morning.

Kristen: 37:00

It's so good. It's so good. I love it. It's a perfect example. So what's so interesting about that is, like the expenditure like that cost your brain something.

Chris : 37:14

So much it cost my brain so much. I was thinking about that. I actually forgot about it till just this moment. I was like, oh, I should talk about this on the podcast today, totally. But here it is. I thank you, brain, for bringing it back in. But I was like, oh my God, this is the cost. This is the cost for somebody with a brain like this, that I put deodorant on three times, that I didn't remember that I did it. I went back into the bathroom and I'm like, oh wait, I think I did this already. It wasted like mental energy, it wasted time. Yeah Right. Like I don't believe that we can like waste time on ourselves, like for all the things we want to do. Sure, like just laying around there's not a waste of time. Like I don't believe in lazy Lazy is a total social construct or whatever. But like I can waste time if I've put deodorant on three times because I walked back and forth between the bathroom several times. Like that is a waste of time and it's eating up a lot of executive function.

Kristen: 38:13

So it's so true. What do you think about just doing one thing? Let's say the one thing is I have a dentist appointment today, so that's going to be my one thing. How much energy does it take you to prepare for the appointment, to get out the door, to remember the things, to get there on time? That one thing there's 50 to 100 steps to get there. Find the address, what was like? How far away is it? How long is it going to take me doing the math backwards, of like when I need to leave All of it? It costs our brain a lot, and so I don't think that we really understand the cost of doing things that we think we should do, that we actually don't care about.

Chris : 39:03

That's so powerful, because I think just what you described, because I know all of us with ADHD go through this, but I don't think that we hear enough about it and all the memes and the reels and the TikToks are really funny. But I think it's so important to hear that representation of what it takes to get to one appointment, or like how I used to like be wanting to go out on my day off and then I would get ready and then I'd not be able to go because I was so exhausted after getting ready. Because you know you want to feel good, you want to look good, you do your hair like. You know it's like oh, I washed my hair today, I'm going to blow it out. Like it's going to be so amazing. How much fucking energy does it take to blow your hair out.

Chris : 39:57

So much, so much, yeah, and like iron it and like all the things, and then you're like and I look pretty, and now I'm going to sit on the couch for the rest of the day Exhausted.

Kristen: 40:06

I'm exhausted 100%. I'll give you a great example of this. I am an entrepreneur, obviously. I'm a coach, I have a podcast and I suck at social media. Oh, I suck at it. No, I don't need sympathy.

Chris : 40:24

No, I'm not. It was an oh like an oh interesting, oh, not like a sympathy. Oh, okay, Because like I'm fine.

Kristen: 40:31

Yeah, it's just especially TikTok. Everybody like there's so many ADHD influencers out there, like so many influencers. You know what I'm saying.

Chris : 40:40

Like ADHD influencers, I wish everybody could see you right now, because like that impersonation of an influencer, like she just like flipped her hair and like tossled it and like she's giving you influencer face. Listen, it's given and.

Kristen: 40:56

I feel like I could pull it off. Of course it could. But the energy my friend, the energy and I go back and forth probably a million times a week about like I should be on TikTok. I should go on TikTok and everybody should be on TikTok. You do so well and I'm just like listen, that is. I like long form content. I like getting into the weeds with the research. I like to be able to connect in conversation, just like this.

Kristen: 41:23

I am not going to be on the, I'm not going to make a one minute video and like go, that's just not going to be me. But like, literally every day I come across ADHD influencers. God bless the ADHD influencers. You're doing the Lord's work. Thank you so much.

Kristen: 41:39

I'm just never going to be that, but my brain sure thinks I should. There's a lot of shoulds with that, but when I look at the cost benefit analysis and I look at who I really am, how I like to operate, what I want to do, like I want long form content where we can get into the weeds I can't spend that energy doing TikToks. I can't do it and so like, if I have to choose one and I can't do the thing that I don't really care about and I don't feel aligned with. I have to do the thing, even though I complain about podcasting.

Kristen: 42:15

Having a podcasting is hard, having a podcast is hard, but this is the way that I want to communicate and I love to be able to have these long conversations and I love going into the weeds with the research, and so this is where I'm going to settle and that's okay. It's settled, meaning like lean in. I don't mean settle, like I don't feel like I'm settling. I'm leaning in to what I really care about and the aspect that I feel like I can really bring myself to.

Chris : 42:43

That is a mic drop moment, because we could all do so many things. I think that's. What's so amazing about our brains, is that I mean how many ideas do we have a day? Millions Like, millions Like. How fast are our brains working?

Chris : 42:59

And good ones too, we have good fucking ideas Like they wouldn't work, they would all work. I'm like, oh, that would work too, and that's the thing it's so overwhelming because it's like it would all work. But you, like you said you have to do that cost benefit analysis and I think if, like, if we walk away, like we were going to walk away with so much today, but like walking away with that, I think is like, and really making that a system that we follow, I think would be game changer for everybody and, let's be honest, not just people with ADHD and not just other neurodivergent people, because, like, the world is a dumpster fire.

Chris : 43:42

And we're all just trying to like survive in a sense and like, yeah, we could be giving all of our energy to activism and like supporting other people, and like there's so much that could be done, but like we really do have to focus first on like, what are our values? What? What lights us up? What's going to support us? We all need to make sure that we're supporting ourselves because that, like, no one else is going to come in and do it, so we definitely need to make sure we do it ourselves and we have to have the energy for that. And then we have to have the energy for the people that we love. And so what?

Chris : 44:20

is left, once we've supported ourselves and we've paid attention to the relationships that are important to us in our lives. That's what can go to other things, and if there's nothing left, then there's nothing left, and that's the life that you live, and I think that's beautiful.

Kristen: 44:36

I so appreciate the way that you put that and I want to bring it back to what you said earlier, which was like grief, because what I find with my clients is that there's so much grief in realizing that you can't do it all.

Chris : 44:56

Yeah that's true, actual grief. Oh yeah, I cried for like two months straight, like I'm not going to lie. Like yes, and you know, I think because, with all of the amazing information that's out there and the influencers, we are sometimes getting away from the fact that this is a disability.

Kristen: 45:20

Yes, thank you.

Chris : 45:22

I mean, I'm very happy for my brain and I understand, like first someone like me maybe it's more because of the world is disabling me.

Kristen: 45:33

It's you know.

Chris : 45:34

I understand like I'm really smart, I have a lot of support, so like everyone has that and it's so great Right. Right. So I realized that for me a lot of it comes down to like the environment is the thing that is causing me the problem.

Chris : 45:51

But that's not everybody's experience. There are people whose experience is very much that like, like their experience of the world, regardless of the support that they're getting, is still really hard. And so I think we do need to remind ourselves when we're being so hard and that's the internalized ableism piece to remind ourselves that like this is a disability and, like you know, not not being able to like get a reward from your brain, from like, from your chemicals in your brain, that's, that's hard, that's hard to work through. So I mean you can just think about even that piece as like that's a part of the disability, because there's a lack of motivation. And if you have a lack of motivation because you're not getting that like hit of good chemicals, think about what you're going to be able to accomplish a lot if you dissociate from your body and disconnect, but then at the end of the day, you're left burnt out, and I you know, just came out of a burnout that was.

Chris : 46:57

I think it was also a depression, I swear. I've changed my meds around a little bit, so I'm doing much better. I think I had to get my cocktail right, but it was. I think it was like a depression, that sort of rolled out of a burnout Like it was like I burned out and then everything kind of came together in a perfect storm, like maybe that time of year when I get depressed, it's the middle of the winter.

Chris : 47:23

It's about to be my birthday, you know all the things. So, um, but like, but that's the result. The result is is something like that so like we, just we need to be kind with ourselves, we need to be gentle, we need to like remember that this is disabling.

Kristen: 47:45

Yeah.

Chris : 47:45

Even for all of the amazing gifts that come with it.

Kristen: 47:48

I think that's just really important.

Chris : 47:50

So I'm getting off my soapbox now for that moment, but I just felt like it. I needed to like bring it. Yeah, yeah, that's so good I could literally talk to you all day.

Kristen: 48:01

Um, I feel like very kindred, kindred, kindred.

Chris : 48:06

Um, but is there anything else that like we didn't touch on, that you feel like you really want to kind of impart to people. Hmm.

Kristen: 48:16

I think that what would be important to say would be if you suspect that you might have ADHD, it's worth having a conversation with your primary care provider about um and you know, what's interesting is that there are more children diagnosed with ADHD than adults, and the reason being is that we we meaning, like science, uh, medical field originally thought that ADHD was a childhood disorder exclusively.

Chris : 48:49

Oh, and that we like grew out of it.

Kristen: 48:51

Yes, my friend, it was only in the 1990s that they realized oh, adults have ADHD too. In the nineties I didn't realize that. So we are still. There are so many undiagnosed adults walking around right now. So the reason why there's a gap I mean the number fluctuates depending on like what um source you're looking at but about like 8% of kids and then like 4 to 5% of adults are diagnosed. So it's a small percentage gap, but there's still a difference in the number of children diagnosed and the number of adults diagnosed. So there's likely a lot of people listening that are undiagnosed.

Kristen: 49:40

The myth that ADHD is being overly diagnosed, it's total BS. It's not true at all. If anything, it's underdiagnosed. Um, and so like, yes, it is trending right now, which is great. I think, mostly great that, like people are becoming more aware of it. But I think it does also open up um misinformation, you know, opportunities for misinformation, opportunities for people to just really move pretty far away from the science of it, and so I would just really recommend um, you know, kind of investigating symptoms and just seeing like how, how maybe you relate to them, how they've maybe played out in your life. And um, yeah, I, my mission in life is to have that number be equal, where exactly the same number of kids diagnosed and the same number of adults, because that's what it really should be.

Chris : 50:37

Yeah, that makes so much sense, yeah, yeah, I think it's important because you know, we're also prone to imposteris in their own. Because of this is because of the. Adhd, and not because of the ADHD, but because of like the way we trauma let's just call it Drama living neurodivergent in a neurosypical world.

Kristen: 50:59

It's so hard.

Chris : 51:00

It's so hard so we're prone to that imposter syndrome where we're always feeling like we don't belong, we're like in the wrong place. We're fucking it up. It's like it's our fault. Yeah, so I think, keeping that in mind as well, if you do think that you're aligning with with ADHD or autism or OCD or complex trauma, any of these things, any of these other, like neurodivergences, divergence, divergencies, divergencies don't gaslight yourself right, Right out of seeking the second opinion, the third opinion because it's really easy to be like oh well, I guess it was just me after all.

Chris : 51:49

Like I was the problem and there's nothing else to just. You know, not to blame, but yeah, there's nothing else to explain.

Kristen: 51:57

Right.

Chris : 51:58

I'm just faulty and we don't want that, and I think, that is. The risk with people saying that it's like people are being over diagnosed with any of these things is that we run the risk of people not getting diagnosed because we've been told our entire lives that we are the problem and we believe it.

Kristen: 52:17

I mean, you said it right there. I'm just applauding. It's exactly right. We've been conditioned to believe because we have never fit inside the box and people inside the box in a nice tidy way usually get diagnosed at their 40s.

Chris : 52:42

Here we are.

Kristen: 52:43

Here we are, but there's a lot of positive reinforcement for people who fit inside the box and then there's a lot of negative feedback for people who don't. There was research done on ADHD kiddos. They received so much more feedback and I don't remember the exact statistics I am so sorry because I have ADHD but so much more negative feedback than their peers.

Chris : 53:14

I've heard that referenced a lot of times and it is so interesting to think about. Right, we're getting that negative feedback and when you're constantly in that negative feedback loop, you just start to internalize it, of course, of course. I think that is definitely contributing to people not seeking out a diagnosis or just more support. You don't need a diagnosis if you're not planning on being medicated like that I wanted to be medicated or try medication because I was already medicated, I'm like let's add some more.

Chris : 53:48

For sure, that's not necessarily the path that everyone wants to take. If you are feeling like you're aligning with this message and you know, there might be something going. Just start trying the strategies.

Chris : 54:03

The influencers are doing an amazing job at giving us lots of things that we can try and do and be the gateway drug to someone like you who has a program, or someone like me who works with people one-on-one, that can then really zero in on the specific issues that each person is having to create a plan and systems around how to just be in the world. Anyone can benefit from that, whether or not you get diagnosed. That was one of the things my first therapist said to me. It was like you don't have to get a diagnosis, we can just start working on strategies to help you with executive dysfunction. Let's just do that.

Kristen: 54:48

Why not? I love that. I love that. I will say, if you are labeling yourself as lazy or unmotivated or a hot mess or chaotic, if you notice that you're applying a lot of those labels to yourself, it might be worth just checking in to see if an ADHD label could kind of like dismantle all of those judgmental beliefs that you have about yourself, because either way you're labeled, yeah, I love that so much Either way you're labeled.

Kristen: 55:36

If you notice that you're labeling yourself a lot, I'm just lazy, I'm just a hot mess. I'm just always on the struggle bus. It just seems easier for other people. I don't know what's wrong with me. Those labels may be better explained with an ADHD label.

Chris : 55:53

I love that context so much. That's so perfect. Yeah, yeah, so simple.

Kristen: 55:59

I mean, I could say all day too, like let's just hang out, let's just hang, cancel everything.

Chris : 56:04

All the things. We're just not doing anything else today, okay, so why don't you tell people where to find you?

Kristen: 56:11

Sure, I'd love to. So I have a free podcast. It's called the I have ADHD podcast. You can listen on all your favorite podcast platforms and if you want more information about me, you can go to my website Ihaveadhdcom. And I do hang out on Instagram once in a while, so you can find me at IHaveADHDpodcast there.

Chris : 56:30

Amazing, and we will link all of this in the show notes so that if you want to find Kristen, you can find her. We're going to thank you so much, kristen, for coming on today, and my friends, I hope you're well. I hope that you got some amazing takeaways from this episode today. I'm sure you did, because it's freaking fire, and I'll talk to you again next week. Bye.

Kristen: 56:51

Thanks See ya. Bye.